Well it looks like this site and my efforts are hitting home in some fire districts in this town. It has come to my attention that the Lake View Fire Company has notified the town that they are decreasing their requested amount of tax dollars by $10,000!
District Fire Commissioner John Wicka directly credits the change of heart to attending the Town Council meeting where I was the only person who spoke in opposition to the new contracts. I guess my comments hit home. John wrote to the Town:
“After careful consideration and review of overall department operational expenses, we have notified the Hamburg Town Board that we have decided to decrease our requested contract amount from $70,000 to $60,000,” Fire Commissioner John Wicka said as part of a statement that was drafted after he attended the Town Board’s Sept. 26 meeting where the budgets of the eight volunteer fire companies based in Hamburg were discussed.
Commissioner Wicka continues: “Even though our costs continue to increase in the areas of energy and fuel, in addition to the need to replace major equipment, we believe we can meet our objectives with the adjusted amount,” said Wicka.
District Fire Commissioner John Wicka and his officers have shown that when people speak up in this town someone may listen. Thank You Commissioner Wicka, you have set the example for the rest of the town, I’m sure the residents of your district are grateful! Now, if I can only get the BTVFC to follow suit and the Town Council to listen to reason.
Good job, now if you can have the rest of the fire companies MERG! that would save tons of money for the taxpayers. I read that BTFD only has only 29 members, how could they cover their their district if most are working?
Why does the Town of Hamburg pay for Rural Metro when there are 9 fire company ambulances in the town?
I thought that the fire companies use mutual aid?
If BTFD can’t staff their ambulance let one of the other fire companies respond! I have seen several fire companies at fires and car accidents screwing up traffic. Why not at first aid calls? Then the taxpayers would not be paying double for a ride to the hospital!!!
I have fire insurance for my house, that can be rebuilt, but life insurance will not bring me back from the dead. The focus should be on EMS.
All the BS that the members of the fire departments are writing about higher insurance rates is just that. If the town of hamburg reduced the fire departments by 50% the insurance rates would remain the same! Let that fire chief that brought up the insurance rates use the state formula that is used for homowners insurance recalculate! Your tax payers would save tons of money in taxes and the insurance rates will stay the same.
What good are all the fire trucks if you have to alert every fire company in the area to respond to a fire due to lack of manpower, when there are three fire trucks in the neighborhood fire company that can not respond because they do not have the manpower!
Mismanagement of tax money! Someone should be investigated, if not the fire departments then the elected officials that hand out the tax money without knowing where it is spent!
Just some thoughts in response to this comment:
The very legitimate issues which you bring up are actually part of the dialogue among the fire companies in Hamburg. Without pretending to speak for each of these entities, let me just say that the recognition exists that times have changed and, in my opinion, the fire service in our area will eventually reflect that.
All urban fire departments… including the world’s largest, the vaunted FDNY… began as a collection of volunteer companies that became a unified department as populations grew, technology developed, mutual aid relationships developed, and so on. I believe that the same MAY eventually develop in our area, a change which may not be limited to Hamburg.
At any rate, in response to some of your other thoughts:
The Town of Hamburg does not pay for Rural/Metro Medical Services. Rural/Metro has contracted to provide services in conjunction with the volunteer fire companies, technically as an advanced-level backup system. The idea is that if the medical complaint of a patient requires a higher level of care than the fire company is able to provide, that higher level is still made available to the patient. The residents of our town can be assured that paramedic level care will be there, regardless of what the response from the volunteer community may be. Additionally, an ambulance is guaranteed in a timely fashion, regardless of the nature of the call. Depending solely on the volunteer mutual aid system often results in delays in patient care. This may not be due to a fault on the fire companies’ part, but simply the realities of the volunteers’ ability to meet demand.
Not everyone who is transported by Rural/Metro “pays double.” There are a lot of renters in Hamburg. Motor Vehicle Accident victims have their costs largely covered by their auto insurance. And, as another poster recently stated, RMA offers a subscription plan with a low annual cost that guarantees ambulance service coverage. Any cost not covered by your health insurance is waived by the ambulance service.
All fire companies in the Town use mutual-aid agreements when necessary.
As far as several emergency units “screwing up traffic…..” Well, you’ll just have to excuse the unfortunate disruption in your plans. Rest assured the individual(s) involved the motor vehicle accident are having a worse day than you. Were it you in their position, I’m sure you’d be thankful that society has provided a means for you to receive necessary aid, even if it means causing some inconvenience to others. That’s why it’s called an “emergency.”
Again, in conclusion, let me say that your observations about the duplication of resources in the Hamburg fire service and the increasingly obsolete response system of the early twentieth century, are not unheard of among the fire companies. Just please, consider that while a small rudder may indeed steer a big ship, that change of course doesn’t occur on a dime!
Mutual aid isn’t just about needing some help. During a mutual aid call, the responding companies go to the fire halls of the company who are requesting mutual aid. They are there in case another call goes out.
Even though you will think it’s a standard answer, that insurance you pay for your home will go up. How much does your department cost you per year? Have the town break that cost down?
The fundraising (tool raffles, meat raffles, pull tabs, gun raffles, etc) are done so the members can add it to the general fund of the department, pass some along to Mercy Flight, expand their prevention programs, buy equipment. It’s done because any of us know it’s hard economically and we need to think outside the box. Ask each department how much grant writing they’ve done and how much/how many grants they’ve received. Did you tour your local department? Go there on a Monday night during their checks. Speak to the Chief and members. You’ll be amazed at what you will learn.
(The idea is that if the medical complaint of a patient requires a higher level of care than the fire company is able to provide, that higher level is still made available to the patient. The residents of our town can be assured that paramedic level care will be there, regardless of what the response from the volunteer community may be. Additionally, an ambulance is guaranteed in a timely fashion, regardless of the nature of the call. Depending solely on the volunteer mutual aid system often results in delays in patient care.)
It is my understanding that most times fire companies are UNABLE to provide ANY level of care! When someone calls for first aid service the fire companies give their people 10 minutes to respond to the fire hall before they notify Rural Metro of the medical emergency. Why bother having anyone else than Rural Metro if they can not provide reliable and consistant service to the tax payers.
As for not paying double for the ambulance ride what do you call paying fire company taxes and when they do not respond you have to pay for the Rural Metro bill? Why should we pay for fire department ambulance service at car accidents when the insurance companies pay for that service? Or does the fire department bill the insurance companies for the ride to the hospital? As for renters, their rent is determined by all expenses of the landlord including the taxes paid to fire departments.
As for the mutual aid response to first aid calls? Do they notify the other first aid ambulances from other Hamubrg fire companies when the initial fire district fails to respond? Is that not mutual aid? When one fire company responds due to the inability of a fire company to have the required equipment or man power to provide the service requested?
You have opened my eyes, and I hope the eyes of many people who are paying for a service that may have been needed in the 1950’s but now it should not be an duplicate expense of the tax payers!
The only fire company with a delay before they call rural metro for less than advanced support is Big Tree. All other areas of the Town get Rural Metro dispatched simultaneously for every first aid call
So what (16:09:24) :
The only fire company with a delay before they call rural metro for less than advanced support is Big Tree. All other areas of the Town get Rural Metro dispatched simultaneously for every first aid call
What? Where did you get this information? What facts do you have to support ths. Hamburg Dispatch “tones out” for the call and service needed based on New York State Law. The dispatchers do a fantastic job and know where Rural Metro is and how long their response is. Lately, Rural Metro has been responding from the city. By the way, dispatch has a timeline they must follow for any call.
Every call that comes in to dispatch for first aid must be dispatched. At what level is determined by the nature of the call. Serious calls where paramedics are required, rural metro is dispatched right away. The volunteers are paged or toned out on every call. Whether they respond is a different story. Big Tree is the only company that has a delay for rural metro dispatch on non-paramedic calls. All other companies have abandoned this system and use rural metro from the start on all calls.
I never brought the dispatchers into this discussion. This timeline is not set by the dispatchers. It is set by the fire companies. The dispatchers have guidelines they do follow, but they are not the ones that determine when residents in Big Trees district get rural metro for basic calls.
Ask any fire chief, dispatcher, or more importantly ask one of your elected officials. BTFC will NOT allow Rural Metro to be called for 10 minutes so they can get a head start. How would you feel if your child needed first aid, and Rural Metro was around the corner and they were not dispatched because BTFC has ORDERED the town of hamburg dispatchers NOT to call Rural Metro for 10 minutes? Ask one of the elected officials in the town! The BTFC is bigger than the town of hamburg and much too big for the taxpayers! I know I would OWN the town of hamburg AND BTFC if something happened to my child in the ten minutes it took for the hamburg dispatchers to call Rural Metro!
First of all, the time is 8 minutes. I know that two minutes doesn’t seem like much but it is. The thing that Big Tree is trying to prevent is making people pay for Rural Metro service. Their members like transporting residents to hospitals whenever they can. So the delay is only for non life threatening calls and it serves the purpose of letting the volunteers get there before Rural Metro gets there and the patient has to pay. You need to remember that volunteers have to come from home or work and may need an extra couple minutes. And again…this is for non-life threatening calls only!
Waiting 8 mintues with a child that has a fractured arm (which by the way in most cases is a non lights and siren) response is ridiculous. This is not about giving the volunteers enough time to get to the hall. It is about providing the best and fastest possible care for the citizens of the town.
Why does Big Tree make Rural Metro wait 8 minutes? If they get a crew and respond then they can transport the patient. It happens countless times that both ambulances show up to a call. If it is a lower level care call Rural Metro is more than happy to give it to Big Tree. If the whole entire town waited 8 minutes that would be fine but 1 company out of 9 sure makes it seem like a boneheaded decision. Please give me some hardcore facts why Big Tree should be different from the rest of the town? Who makes the decision to wait the 8 minutes? Why does the fire company get to decide that? That should be a decision made by the town board or the citizens and should be right in the contract that is signed every year. Please tell me why one group of people can make decisions like that without getting any input from the people they are trying to serve.
Fireman how do you know for a fact that it is a non life threatening call. By the 3 or 4 minutes that the dispatcher spends on the whole with them? Just because you have been on a 100 broken arm calls you tend to forget that most of the time if someone calls 911 it is one of the worst days of their life.
So Big Tree is the only company willing to save the taxpayers money by holding off rural metro for 8 minutes. Well that is a noble gesture. Except there is one small problem with this gesture. Big Tree has one of the lowest if not the lowest response and transport rates for all companies in town. Big Tree is making an excellent case for doing away with our volunteer ambulance service. Of course this is not a first come first transport situation. Determination is made on the scene as to who will transport on the vast majority of calls. If Big Tree doesn’t show, then rural metro transports. So there exists absolutely no reason for the 8 minute delay.
The whole idea is to provide our residents with the best possible service when it comes to first aid. Unfortunately some companies do it better than others.
One concession I will give to big tree is that they do have poor membership numbers. I don’t know what the reason for this is, but they need to grow their membership or very seriously consider merging with an adjoining company.
Of course the other companies without the 8 minute delay generally have better response time than rural metro.
One thing with response times, they are considered responding when the first unit calls on the radio (usually the chief), not when the first piece of equipment leaves the hall
First of all, where do you get that Big Tree has the lowest response/transport percent? I haven’t seen any numbers to prove this. Lets see come facts. Second, a lot of the times when Rural Metro gets there first they do a scoop and run, or get there and leave within a matter of minutes before the volunteers get there.
Where do you get your facts that rural metro “scoops and runs” when they get there. If this does happen, it is at the request of the patient or upon the knowledge that a company is not responding and in essence defers the call to metro. If the transport is not life threatening and the volunteers are not there metro will not take the patient without these conditions existing.
Why does Rural Metro do a scoop and run on a BLS call? How many times has this happened? Dates, Times??? Where is the evidence to back it up.
Maybe people should starting looking into the contract that Hamburg has with Rural Metro. Even if a volunteer ambulance responsed to every call but did not have the proper level of care needed (if a paramedic is needed), even if a rural metro paramedic rides on a volly ambulance patients will get billed even if its the volunteer companies equipment and supplies being used that you the tax payers pay for. That is how the contract works and the volunteers have no control over that. Training to be a paramedic is like a full time job and everyone should understand that with the economy it is not possible for volunteers to give up their job just to become a paramedic. Basic Emts are being allowed to do more on calls now and everytime this becomes possible most basic emts are being trained on these protocols. The state is also making volunteers upgrade their equipments (defibillators) which is costing companies up to $20,000. That is where most of the budget increases are coming from. Many companies, especially Big Tree have by trying to conduct fundraisers to eliminate most of the cost. The Country Music Night that Big Tree is hosting is to cover some of the cost for EMS equipment that is being mandated by the state.
Vol EMT
No one is arguing that the training is becoming more demanding on the volunteers. I think you need to understand where the problem is. You say that the state mandates you to buy new defibs. Ok why don’t you take part of the million or so dollars you have in the bank and buy what you need. That is what the money is for, not for a 350K piece of property, 7k for your installation dinner, gas for all 3 of your chiefs, the money wasted on conventions which are nothing more than drinking fests where your company serves steak and free beer, a 450k rescue truck which was a HUGE duplication of equipment. Stop being so small minded and see the big picture. Instead of being 9 separate little isolated islands work together to be one big picture. Every ff/emt in the town would have the exact same training, same SOG’s, same equipment and the result would be better service for the citizens.
The Big Tree district alone has received almost 1000 calls. How do you expect one fire company to handle all of Hamburg if that many calls are dispatched in one district alone? If an ambulance is out for one area whats going to happen if there is another call at the same time in Lake View? All you will get then is rural metro and you will again get billed like you are complaining about. You all complain but yet do you volunteer for your community? And just so you are aware gas is only supplied to the Chief’s vehicle while assistances only get a certain allowance. And why shouldn’t they when they drive around for calls? Are you saying volunteer Chiefs should pay for their own fuel? I know you wouldn’t. The last 2 yrs are the first time taxes have gone up at all for many districts and that is due to the economy.
Every fire company in Hamburg hosts an installation dinner so why is Big Tree the only one being accused of spending money? Most companies also participate in the yearly conventions and also supply food and free alcohol. Do you think Big Tree is the only company that has money saved up or is it that you all just have a personal problem with Big Tree? The administration of fire halls are in charge of where money goes. The members have nothing to do with it and I will agree that some people in these positions of control need to be removed. But it is not a process that can be done overnight. Elections are once a year and maybe this was a year of disaster. Give the company time to pick up some of the pieces. Members of companies are just as frustrated as you. But as a citizen of Hamburg and a volunteer EMT I KNOW it is not better for the citizens to have one large company. Especially with certain areas being overloaded with calls as is. Why don’t you concentrate on the companies who are only dispatched for 200 calls and don’t even answer 50 of them… push them to merge with busier areas.
VOL EMT, I have no problem with the chiefs and other officers of the fire department getting gas or other amenities from the department for the work they do. What I have a problem with is the accounting of such expenses. I said it a dozen times now, we need the town officials to have contractual oversight of all money/tax dollars given to the fire company. This particular company accused another president of stealing gas and at the end of a long lawsuit it cost the tax payers a lot of money to settle the suit. Initial reports were that allegations were made about gas being taken without approval or repayment. Then when the facts apparently came out and it was revealed that everything was done above board and the BTVFC had to pay a settlement for the humiliation caused these people. Who do you think is paying that settlement? Us the tax payers that’s who.
There are a lot of problems in the BTVFC and it doesn’t just stop there. Problems are across the board with every fire company in this town but the BTVFC is in my district and that’s why I take aim at them. If I lived in Scranton or Newton Abbott I would be talking about them and not Big Tree. Unfortunately for the BTVFC I live in the Big Tree fire district so that’s where I concentrate my efforts. I do think it has opened the eyes of a lot of people around this town and especially the town council who are now looking at financial matters more closely. In the end I expect that financial oversight will be implemented in every town fire contract or we will see consolidation of departments who refuse to those who don’t.
One final thing, if you are a town volunteer emt, why don’t you post your name and e-mail address? Are you afraid of reprisals?
Vol EMT
You are missing the point once again. What people are upset about is the fact that you want to raise taxes yet perform less services. You say training and equipment is going up for EMS but yet you respond less. How can you justify raising taxes when you do less and less each year. Does it really make sense for people to have to pay for your ambulances via their taxes then pay again when Rural Metro bills? Why not just give up doing transportation EMS and take it out of your budget? Let people who use the service pay for it when they need it not if they need it.
So you are saying your company supplies your Chief with unlimited gas. So he can drive wherever he wants on the fire company? Why do the Assistants get gas? Why give not give gas to everyone then since all the volunteers still need to drive to the hall or training? How much gas do the Assistants get? Is it Dependant on how many calls they respond to?
Yes you are correct that all companies hosts installation dinners each year but from what your members tell me yours by far is the most expensive. You even take your fire company out of service that night. Good to know that my sister who lives 3 streets from your hall has to wait for another company that is twice as far away to come to her aid if she needs it while you all are getting drunk on taxpayers money.
You are saying that the members have no power to decided on how money is spent? Is it left up to the Officers of the company? Is it never brought up to your general membership?\
I think you are completely wrong that by dissolving all 9 companies and forming one 1 is not the best for the town. You are very small minded and have no clue how things work outside of Hamburg.
I’m not afraid of anything or am I intimidated by you. It does not matter what my name is in order to make a point or a comment on this site. I completely agree that Big Tree’s spending is out of control on certain things but thing you don’t know that it’s own members are fed up as well. Unfortunately Big Tree has a low membership rate which means that most of the membership are older people. So think about it… who do you think gets their way.. the old or young (future of the company). And I know the land purchase sounds pricey but I really don’t believe they would do something that would raise their own taxes as well. If they do decide to build a hall there one day there are grants on new buildings and this would lower what Big Tree pays being in one building. And the gas settlement I really don’t know the details of it and frankly so I will not make a comment on it since I do not know the details (was not involved in the fire service at that time). The young members are soon able to move up into administration positions where you may see a change for the positive by time is what it will take. Why don’t you see what happens next year. And i also know you don’t mean to attack the people who shows up on call but all this does effect them. We get very discouraged that people seem completely against the volunteer system over things not every member controls.
How is one company with one ambulance going to serve Hamburg if different areas of Hamburg have calls at the same time? You will still be paying for the volunteer service and metro which will cover the second call. And did I say I was a member of Big Tree.. NO..there are 8 other companies I could be in. And every fire company goes out of service during their installation dinner. And some companies do not bring back to the entire membership the budget being asked for the following year. There are special committees for that and with one company the same people will be making the budget.
One centralized location will not be far for citizens in Lakeview and Woodlawn. If if volunteers responded right away with traffic and the commute on location times will be so long that Metro will already be there and gone. Stop thinking about yourself and think about how big Hamburg is. One location will never work for that reason. You can say I’m simple minded all you want. Your not the one on the riggs to see how long it will take. Try to explain to some one why it took so long to get to a cardiac arrest when Metro has ETA’s of 13 mins lately cause Hamburg isn’t be supplied properly with Metro cars. Get a scanner and see how many volunteer ambulances are being distpatched lately due to Metro cars coming from Buffalo and Cheektowaga for life-threatening cars. You do not know how it is lately.